Rumble: Accessing Trigger Groups

An FU Student Asks:

Since it's important to hit the original charged group to set off your chain... what is the best way to build so that you have access to it? Everytime I set my chains up, I almost never hit my original group so it leaves 2-3 sets of charged groups up.

Good question. There are a couple ways to keep your first group (often referred to as the "trigger") available. One option is to simply not build on that side of the board, like this:

In this case, the trigger is the red group on the far right. Notice that I have a red ball in my right hand just waiting to trigger the combo. It's important to have that triggering ball available (and in a hand that can reach the trigger). To build this, I basically started my combo by charging a red ball and attaching it to the right side. At that point, I continued to build my combo primarily from the right hand. I do this until my right hand has the color I need to trigger the combo - in this case, red. Once I have my trigger ball ready, I go to my left hand and build only from there. I don't want to lose that red ball in my right hand because I have no idea when I'll get another.

One problem with this approach is that you end up "wasting" some space on your board. Notice the large gray triangle I created. That shaded area shows the part of the board that is difficult to build in, if using your left hand.

Is this really a problem? I don't think so. I think you have plenty of room to build a big enough combo to insta someone without having to worry about that bit of wasted space. Nonetheless, you want to ensure that you're using as much space as possible and packing in your combo as tightly as you can.

Now, you can try to use up more of that space by placing some strategic shots and perhaps using some back shots. What you want to avoid, though, is getting cut off from your trigger group, like this:

In this situation, the charged yellow group on the left side is my trigger. I even have my yellow ball in my left hand so I'm ready to go. Unfortunately, I can no longer get to it. Note the charged red group on the left side - that's where the problem happens. I built too far out to the left and that charged red group started catching sprinkles. It caught so many, in fact, that I can no longer trigger my combo.

So, if you use the open side technique, try to use as much space as you can, but don't build too large or you may find yourself cut off.

A second option is to build a "fuse" to keep your trigger open. Here's an example:

In this case, the charged orange group in the center is the trigger. Notice a couple things here. First of all, I built up this combo on both sides (although the left side is built up a bit more because I was holding that orange in my right). Also, the orange group has a number of charged balls in it, extending it downward. By occasionally attaching additional charged orange balls to the bottom of my trigger group, I keep it from getting buried.

The downside, of course, is that you end up spending extra time charging balls to attach to an already charged group. If you count the charged orange balls in that picture, you'll see that I have 8 charged balls in that group. That's enough to have two more complete charged groups, had I only kept one charged ball on the orange group.

So, which method is better? Personally, I like starting a combo on the side and then keeping that side open. It's faster and there's less waste. Also, you don't sacrifice much by giving up a little real estate in terms of how large your strike can be. Note that both the open side combo (15 steps) and the fuse combo (17 steps) were enough to send a strike large enough to reach the bottom of the opponent's board. The fuse method works, but I think you waste far too much time charging balls.

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Building strikes like this has a time and a place. When you're fighting one on one, you're generally not going to have time to build strikes like this unless you're fighting a far inferior opponent. Anyone decent will be sending occasional strikes that will interrupt your combo building process.

If, however, you're certain that your opponent isn't going to send you any more strikes, you can use their sprinkle pattern against them. This works well against folks that like to turbo sprinkle or against opponents that give up striking and go to sprinkles as their board fills (lots of players have this tendency).

Here's an example:

In this case, I used the "Open Side" technique, but I intentionally started my combo using available yellows on the left. That charged yellow group on the far left is my trigger. Notice, however, that it has uncharged yellow balls attached to the bottom. How did those get there? Those are my opponent's sprinkles, of course. I knew that my opponent was sending yellow balls up the left side, so I intentionally stated my combo to match that sprinkle pattern. Then, I'd continue building my combo as usual, but, whenever the opponent would send sprinkles, those sprinkles would act as a "fuse" for my trigger group. Notice how much of the board I'm able to use with little-to-no waste because I'm using my opponent's sprinkle pattern against them.

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So when do you use strikes like this? Well, there are a few situations that come to mind. Sometimes, I do it just for fun, when I'm fighting someone without as much skill as me (read "Able"). Against turbo sprinklers, combos like this can be powerful, but you need to keep pressure on them and adding bruises to the combos can also be very potent (of course, you can always use their sprinkle pattern to add bruises, making your attacks faster and nastier). Most good turbo sprinklers will fill your board so quickly that you won't be able to build a combo large enough to insta-kill them. Nonetheless, you can, and should, use their attacks against them.

Another time to use strikes like this would be when rumbling in groups, against barbarians, for instance. One technique that works well against barbarians is for an untargeted player (or a defended player) to build insta-kill combos and pick off bots one at a time. With rumbling (especially against barbarians), creating insta-kill combos doesn't even involve that much skill - it just takes time. The more skillful players can do it faster, but it's not difficult to build a 10+ step combo in rumble, if you're unmolested.

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Another note about your question - you point out that you sometimes break only part of your combo. Sometimes, that's not a bad thing. Let's say you have an 8 stage combo. You break half of it, add a charged group and then break the rest. What does your opponent see? Back to back nasty strikes. It can be a little difficult to work out, but pulling occasional strikes like this can be a great way to keep your opponents guessing.

You see, most opponents have a definite pattern to their strikes. After fighting people a few times, you just get a feel for when their next strike will come. As such, you can time your own strikes to counter that. Doing things like turning a single combo into two smaller, rapid fire combos, is a great way to keep your opponent guessing.

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I hope that helps answer your question!

Quick Tip: Constant Pressure

When rumbling, it's essential that you constantly keep your opponent under pressure. That means sending either major or minor strikes periodically. That may mean that the attacks you send aren't the best attacks you could possibly send. Sometimes, you just have to make that sacrifice. The trick is to keep pressure on your opponent and force them to do themselves in. Force them to make a mistake and, whatever you do, don't let up and allow them to recover. Once they make that mistake, constant pressure can compound that mistake and make it even harder to recover.

Too many folks like to build monster combos and insta-kill with them. The problem with this technique is that you'll never beat the best rumblers out there because they won't allow this to happen. The top rumblers are constantly sending either major strikes or groups of sprinkles to disrupt your ability to build a huge combo.

It is possible to build huge strikes and keep pressure on your opponent - it's just difficult to do. While you're building your main combo, drop a few minor strikes on your opponent. Or, perhaps, take a quick break from your main combo and send a quick three group combo off to the side.

The payoff is that you can keep pressure on your opponent and prevent them from clearing their screen. Then, when you're ready, you unleash your big combo and they're done for. The risk is that it takes a long time to pull that off and you're going to have plenty of charged groups that can get separated by a striking opponent.

Unless I know my opponent won't strike me, I try not to build any combos larger than 5 or 6 groups. Depending on the bludgeons/opponent/colors, I might go a little bigger, but not in general. I know I could send nastier strikes, but like I said, it's more important to consistently attack your opponent than to send nasty strikes only occasionally.

Bludgeons and Strategies

I'm just going to write a bit about a handful of the bludgeons out there and how I use them. I'm no expert on bludgeons as I've really only used a couple. I tend to stick to the rope coils and (just recently) the blackjack. A few others that I have some experience with include the chain, the skull rings, and the hammer. I'm just going to give you my impressions of these bludgeons, so what you're about to read is very opinionated - others with different playstyles may have very different outlooks, but here are mine. For reference, you can find a listing of all bludgeons and their strike patterns here. I'd suggest having that page open so that you can refer to it throughout this discussion.

Reading a bludgeon chart can actually be rather confusing, but this is how you should interpret them (I think):

*Note: Not all bludgeons have strike patterns the same size. I'm going to assume a 5 row strike pattern such as the belaying pin or the rope coils. It's similar for other bludgeons.

The top 5 rows (just above the gap) are the "strike" pattern. This is what you'll send to your opponent if you trigger a major strike. If you send a 2 row strike, you'll get the bottom two (of the top) rows. If you send a 5 row strike, you'll send all five. If you send an 8 row strike, you'll send all 5 and then the bottom three over again.

The bottom two rows are the sprinkle pattern and, unlike the strike pattern, they're sent from top to bottom, not bottom to top. So, if you send a single row of sprinkles, you send the row that is second from the bottom. If you send multiple rows in a single sprinkle attack, you'll send both rows (and it repeats to fill enough rows).

Rope Coils

This is the bludgeon that I really have the most experience with. Pretty much everything about the rope coils screams "average" except for two very important aspects: excellent color separation on sprinkles and an excellent price.

The strike pattern is pretty ho-hum. Large strikes are too easily cleared. Small strikes aren't bad as long as you have three rows in the strike. Three rows will help keep you from getting really large groups of colored balls. Whatever you do, do not send two-row strikes. The first two rows in the strike pattern offer no differentiation so, if you were to constantly send 2-deep strikes, they'd simply all mesh together and could be cleared way too easily. Go 3-deep, at least. Beyond that, it's a bit of a crap shoot - large strikes from rope coils are easily cleared. Just don't make it easier than it already is.

The strength of the rope coils is it's sprinkle pattern. It's not horribly exciting - large groups of 3 colors, but, if you pay attention, it's actually rather impressive. Only three colors means less to work on for those strikers out there - they're going to have lots of wasted colors. The real strength, though, is the color separation. Notice the same color appears on both the left and right side of the sprinkle pattern. If you can get your opponent low on the board, go for turbo sprinkles - the goal is to run them out of whatever colored ball is on the outside. For every sprinkle attack you send, they're going to need two balls of that single color to keep up. Hopefully, you can keep it up long enough for them to not get it. Getting into this situtation often involves "weathering the storm" of initial strikes and getting off a decent sized strike late in the game. Once they're down low, push the attack.

And, of course, I mentioned the price. Rope takes 2 units of paint, 2 units of hemp, and 15 hours of basic labor. Cheap, cheap, cheap. I'd consider it to be one of the best bludgeons in the game (perhaps not the best, but I've made it to number 2 in Midnight using only rope coils, so they're certainly usable) and you can always find one for less than 1,000 PoE. I consider the rope coils to be an excellent bludgeon choice for the new rumbler. Cheap and effective.

Blackjack

The bludgeon that seems to be taking over Midnight, the blackjack is very powerful, if used properly.

The sprinkle pattern is simply not good. The sprinkle pattern on a blackjack is really no better than bare fists. Three colors straight across. Not impressive.

Opposite the rope coils, the power of the blackjack lies in its strikes, specifically, it's small strikes. The first few rows of the blackjack strike pattern are a total mess. The top few rows offer some large clusters, but those bottom few rows are brutal. The technique that seems to be sweeping the ocean is the "speed strike" attack. It's a simple technique, which I feel is overpowered and unbearably difficult to counter. In fact, there's a whole thread about it on the forums, here. I don't necessarily agree with everything Boothook has said, but I tend to agree with him that the blackjack is just too strong. Anyway, that's another story...

The speed strike attack is disgustingly simple. Create three charged groups and pop 'em. Rinse. Repeat. Ad Nauseum. It's a brutal attack for a couple reasons. For one, you can keep constant pressure on your opponent. The bad part of building large strikes is that, when you're setting up, you often stop attacking your opponent, allowing them time to clear and set up counters. With the speed strike attack, you offer no such luxury. You're using the most effective part of your bludgeon - those bottom three rows in the strike pattern. It's dang hard to interrupt. With only three charged groups, you can very quickly create a group and pop it - you just don't run the high risk of someone sending a strike in the middle of your prep and screwing up a huge combo. And what if they do send a strike that screws you up a bit? You lose what? One, two charged groups. Make two more and continue on. Big deal. It's not like you lost a 9-stage combo.

I just recently bought my first blackjack (this came out of frustration as I reached the semi-finals of a familiar tourney and then lost to someone that I can normally beat because she had a blackjack and I had ropes). Since purchasing my blackjack, I find my fights infinitely easier to win. The strategy is simple to understand and easy to execute. The results are devastating. I may not like it, but I can't argue with the results. Until someone finds a solid counter (which I have not yet found), I think the top of the rumbling charts is going to consist of a whole lot of blackjack using speed strikers.

So what's the down side of the blackjack? Is there one? Well, there are a couple I can think of. For one, it really only shines when you use the strategy I explained. It's certainly usable outside that strategy, but not overly impressive. It makes most blackjack rumblers one dimensional - it's just that even that one dimension can be almost impossible to defeat. Another downside is that it takes speed and discipline to use properly. You must avoid the temptation to sprinkle and stick to your game plan. Easier said than done. Trust me. Also, the price can be prohibitive. Average sale price on Midnight is about 18,000 PoE for a blackjack. Compare that to < 1,000 PoE for a set of rope coils and you may question whether or not the blackjack is worth the investment. However, for something that is showing itself to be as dominant as the blackjack, it had better be damn expensive.

For elite rumblers, the blackjack seems to be the way to go. This is just my opinion, based largely on the fact that I haven't found a good, consistent working counter against the blackjack speed strike, but it's still the way I feel. It's just that good. I fight Springheel very often. He's better than I am - we both know that, but we have good fights. When he uses a blackjack and I use my ropes, he virtually always wins. Since I got my blackjack, we fought 3 or 4 times with the roles reversed (him with ropes, me with a blackjack) - I've won every fight.

Chain

I don't know a ton about the chain - I've never used one. It's a medium priced bludgeon and seems to be pretty middle of the road in most regards.

Most folks consider the chain to be a sprinkling weapon and, indeed, the sprinkle pattern does look marginally better than the strike pattern. It has some minor color separation in the first row and some much more impressive color separation in the second row. If you want to be a good chain user, learn to send large sprinkle attacks.

Chains can be especially mean if your opponents board is uneven. In such a case, your sprinkles stick all over the place, rather than in small groups. Of course, leaving your opponent with an uneven board means avoiding strikes (they tend to flatten your opponent's board), which can be dangerous business.

In general, chain users don't give me much trouble.

Hammer

The hammer seems like it should hold a lot of promise. Unfortunately, I've never seen anyone really able to capitalize on that potential. The first thing you'll notice about the strike pattern is the presence of lots of bruises in the strike pattern. The problem with the strike pattern is everything else. Around those bruises are huge groups of like-colored balls. That means that your opponent can simply knock those groups out and your bruises fall harmlessly off the board.

If you want to strike effectively with a hammer, you need to be able to add even more bruises to your strikes. This can certainly be a bit dangerous because not only do you have to build the strike, but you also have to spam some excess balls to the bottom of the strike to add bruises. That extra time does a couple negative things: it makes your strike easier to interrupt and it gives your opponent more time to clear.

What's worse is that the sprinkle pattern, while not bad in and of itself, matches up almost perfectly with the strike pattern (except for the left side). If you send a 4 row strike and then some sprinkles, a single ball on the right side of the board can clear all the way up through your strike. Blech. The same can be said for the middle of the board. The middle of the board is where you want your bludgeon to be strongest, as it's harder to clear than the sides. The hammer is at it's weakest near the middle of the board.

Considering the price of the hammer (15,000+ PoE on Midnight), I consider this bludgeon to be overpriced and underachieving. Perhaps an expert rumbler could use it effectively, but I've just never been able to get it to live up to what I think it should be capable of, considering the price. For that price, I'd certainly either buy a blackjack or save myself 15,000 PoE and buy some rope coils.

Gauntlets

Not a bad bludgeon, but also not one that normally gives me much trouble, either. The strength of the gauntlets are the large strikes. It has a 6 row strike pattern and the last 4 rows are markedly nastier than the first 2. The sprinkle pattern lines up with the strike pattern perfectly, making the two attacks, in unison, more detrimental than useful.

The gauntlet seems to be that it would be a good bludgeon for folks that want to "go big" with their combos. Constant 6-deep strikes could be effective, but it might be too slow to really be a strong attack.

I've never used gauntlets and fought against very few, so I do not have a great feel for them. Most of what I'm spouting here is theory.

Skull Rings

I've never understood the excitement around Skull Rings. They look okay when you see the strike pattern, but I find them entirely too easy to counter. The sprinkle pattern matches up with the strike pattern on both sides, making it easy to clear long gashes up either side. The center is somewhat stronger in that the sprinkle pattern doesn't mesh with the strike pattern, but the strike pattern is largely monochrimatic all the way up the middle, making it easy to clear.

However, the thing that I usually exploit with the skull rings is the 5-wide color group in the middle of the sprinkle pattern. I almost always start my combos there. By placing a charge ball into the middle of that large group, I'm almost ensured that I won't lose that group due to a strike. In fact, in most cases, your opponent will send a few more rows of sprinkles, leading my trigger group to be a huge cluster of balls with my charged ball nestled happily in the middle.

Moderately priced. Too easily countered. I'm not a fan.

Skeleton Bone

This can be a rather wicked weapon. Color separation in the sprinkle pattern is decent. The strike pattern is a bit of a mess, especially if you stick with strikes of depth in multiples of 2 (2-deep, 4-deep, 6-deep, etc.) Even if you get outside 2's, the strike pattern is pretty solid.

Of course, the only way to get a skeleton bone is from defeating skeletons. I don't believe you need to be alive at the end to get the bludgeon - it's just randomly given out to some pirates that were alive at the end of the fight. Nonetheless, it's not something often awarded. It also has a decay rate of 30 days, which is among the shortest of all bludgeons. So, don't expect this to be a consistent weapon (unless you're an avid skeleton hunter, perhaps, or willing to pay well for them).

All the Rest

I'm just simply not going to comment on the other bludgeons. Either I don't have enough experience with them or they're not worth using or some of both. (Or perhaps I'm just tired of typing as this has gotten very long.)

Remember that what I've discussed here is almost all a matter of opinion. I'm sure you'll find others with very different outlooks on the various bludgeons. Hopefully, though, you've learned how to read a bludgeon pattern and can make some of your own decisions on what is and is not good.

Rumbling: Required Reading

I'm going to get things started by talking about rumbling. The first thing everyone should do is take in some of the "required reading" that's out there for Rumbling.

First off is the YPPedia entry for rumbling. This is a short read but describes the basics of the game. In particular, make sure you understand the differences between major and minor strikes (aka striking vs. sprinkling), how to create combos, and defending teammates.

Next up is Boothook's Rumbling Guide. It's got some amazing information in there, but it's also stiflingly long. Take it in small doses, but most questions about rumbling can be found there. If you really want to be one of the "best of the best", I suggest reading this guide...a few times.

Also, check out this thread on the Y!PP forums about fighting barbarians. After all, not everyone wants to stand in the Inn and fight in the rumble pits. However, if you like to pillage, you're going to run across barbarians, and you're going to want to know how to fight them. There's not a lot there, but there is some basic info about barbarians.

Welcome to Fullbeard University!

Welcome, mates, to Fullbeard University. This is a blog to help me train my fellow Y!PP players about various aspects of the game. Over time, I'll be adding posts here with training materials to help folks be the very best Y!PP players they can be.

This blog is open for discussion so, if you have questions, be sure to post them in the comments. I'll respond as best I can.

Hope to see you around!

- Fullbeard